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But, I am so excited by a visual I haven't been able to ignore that I had to share it -- now that it feels like I have something to contribute. I'm not convinced of a clear meaning yet, but there have been multiple uses of crosses within the settings for the storytelling. I'm hoping someone will be inspired to take the idea and really run with it. There are colors to discuss, etc.
4.01 Lazarus Rising - Dean is resurrected. Nothing subtle here, is there?
4.02 Are You There God? It's Me, Dean Winchester - These are the windows in Bobby's upstairs. 
The Meg manifestation also spends time framed against this same window.
4.03 In the Beginning - Here's where I decided there was deliberate use of the cross motif going on. The first cap is as Dean wakes up in 1973. The window covering the right half of the image drew my eye first for its color...
... and then I couldn't stop seeing cross after cross in its structure.
Later in the same ep, 4.03 In the Beginning, we see Dean with his grandfather Samuel who is already possessed by the YED at this point. 
I'm thinking it was a deliberate decision to dress the windows with the heavy drapes pulled aside and just sheers in place to reveal the cross structure behind.
I can point to a couple uses of a cross motif in ep 4.04 Metamorphosis and 4.05 Monster Movie, but they are more of a stretch. The camera doesn't spend the same time letting the viewer's eye find or linger on the crosses. I'd about decided that a window is just a window when I was looking through screencaps from the most recent episode.
4.06 Yellow Fever -
I've left these in the large size because there's plenty to explore - especially in the first shot (Look at the sign colors!). This scene is just after Sam has interrupted Dean's "Eye of the Tiger" air drumming. I'm interested in the series of double crosses in the (electric? telephone?) poles strung along the right hand edge of the mural. I'm interested because the camera seems to be interested. When the view changes to get closer to the boys while keeping them both in the frame, the camera has angled over the Impala's hood and across her windshield. What ends up centered between the Winchester brothers? I can't think that is accidental. I'm also hoping its association with a bridge and power is deliberate.
As I said at the outset, I'm not ready to settle what this has to mean. What we can see is that early on Dean alone is associated with the cross visual. Dean's body position in relation to it varies. As the images continue making environmental appearances, it is most often seen in multiples. When Dean is with others they've been strongly tied to the YED and/or been sacrifices of the YED. In the most recent use, Dean's brother is with him which gives me chills.
All these images were capped by ![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif)
oxoniensis. Please forgive where I've failed to follow established posting procedures or formatting. I'll be happy to correct whatever I can and have no problem if a mod changes anything or comes up with appropriate tags.
Is this already being discussed anywhere that I'm not aware of? If so, I'd be grateful to be pointed there without delay!
October 30 2008, 00:42:01 UTC 3 years ago
My meta brain is a little unavailable at the moment, so I don't have anything relevant to contribute, but for a future meta topic this is very interesting. Also, it'll be cool to watch new episodes with this theme in mind.
And there are really no established posting procedures here so don't worry about it. :)
October 30 2008, 02:47:24 UTC 3 years ago
1) Just for curiosity's sake I googled to find the proper name for that type of double-barred cross in 4x06. It's called a patriarchal cross.
2) Does anyone know whether that mural would have been created by the show's set designers? I'm wanting to think so, but my town actually has a (sort of) similar mural. Maybe this was a found location?
BTW - I'm developing a new eye from reading the metas here. I now pick up on colors (The red, white, and blue of the barbershop behind Dean waking in 1973 backs up what hearseeno noticed in Lazarus Rising!) and flowers (There are red and yellow flowers behind Dean in the close-ups of his side of the Yellow Fever conversation.). Thanks for making a place for this way to think about our show.
October 30 2008, 08:37:39 UTC 3 years ago Edited: October 30 2008, 08:44:07 UTC
2) That mural wasn't made by the production team. It was already there. This episode was filmed in Squamish, a small town about an hour drive north of Vancouver, likely because of its proximity to the pulp mill. I've spent a lot of time up there rock climbing and on occasion wandered around looking for good restaurants. There's a pub down the street from there that's not too bad. :) Here's some BTS pictures, one of which shows some of the other pubic art in town. http://sacrament666.livejournal.com/693
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October 31 2008, 00:17:30 UTC 3 years ago
darnthank! you for pointing out the nursery cross. Looks like I'll have a mission to get me through the next hiatus. I'd been wondering whether it would be likely to show up if I went looking for it in earlier seasons/episodes.Thanks also for the information about the mural. I had no clue how to find out and love that it was this easy! I peeked at the pictures you linked to, but avoid spoilers so didn't look too hard at anything besides the Impala. :) What a gorgeous part of the world.
I'm brainstorming now for useful questions to keep in mind regarding the cross appearances. What messages can we infer from the cross motif's presence? And which are we supposed to infer?
- Is it new or are we just noticing now due to a shift in visual emphasis?
- Which cross associations (sacrifice, death, resurrection, redemption, salvation, faith, etc.) are intended?
- Is it alluding to something that's already happened or foreshadowing something yet to come? Is that too concrete a way of thinking of it?
- What's the significance of the crosses appearing in multiples?
October 31 2008, 13:19:54 UTC 3 years ago
The past use of crosses in Supernatural pt 1
What messages can we infer from the cross motif's presence? And which are we supposed to infer?- Is it new or are we just noticing now due to a shift in visual emphasis
The cross motif and it’s links to past seasons grabbed me at stole my morning. I don't think the cross motif is new at all but it seems more obvious in S4.
There have been a number of previous clear associations of crosses with spell work and controlling supernatural forces (inc demons) in the show that might have implications for how the cross motif is relevant in season 4 to both Sam and Dean.
1x11 Scarecrow
This wasn't really a cross although when the scarecrow is tied to the posts it looks like a cross, but actually it was a t-bar sadly. I'm not sure if there's anything to be thought about here other than the villagers were ‘controlling’ the pagan God.
Associations with this use of the cross motif: sacrifice (death), temporary gain, controlling the supernatural.
1x12 Faith
This was the very first thing that sprung to mind for previous uses of crosses - Sue Ann was using the Coptic and standard crosses in spell work to control the reaper to give and take life.
Associations with this use of the cross motif: sacrifice (death), temporary gain, controlling the supernatural.
1x16 Shadow
Although not an especially prominent cross like in Faith in this episode there was very clearly a cross on the alter which Meg was using to summon and control the Daevas (shadow demons).
Associations with this use of the cross motif: controlling the supernatural, demons.
Season 2
2x08 Crossroad Blues
Crossroads, where pacts are made. I’m going to say that the crossroads are a cross motif not always clear visually but it’s a story point that it’s crossroads so I’m counting this and AHBL2 as use of crosses. The first image has a really strong cross motif although I'm not sure quite meaning to draw from Sam and Dean being in the middle of it.
Associations with this use of the cross motif: sacrifice (death and soul), temporary gain, resurrection, dealing with the supernatural, demons, damnation.
October 31 2008, 13:20:18 UTC 3 years ago Edited: October 31 2008, 18:18:13 UTC
The past use of crosses in Supernatural pt 2
2x22 All Hell Breaks Lose pt 2In AHBL2 there wasn't a long/high shot of the crossroads like there was in Crossroad Blues.
Associations with this use of the cross motif: sacrifice (death and soul), temporary gain, resurrection, dealing with the supernatural, demons, damnation.
3x10 Dream a Little Dream of Me
This is the scene where Jeremy is beating Sam and Sam takes control of the dream and imagines Jeremy's father and then later (somehow) Jeremy's neck snaps while in the dream.
Associations with this use of the cross motif: murder(?), dealing with the supernatural(?), controlling the supernatural(?), attempting to save others/escape(?).
I'm sure there are plenty more crosses to be found. All in all this makes me go 'Oh boys' because this isn't going to end well is it? Crosses appearing with Dean in Season 4 are more understandable to me given the show so far but the potential meanings of crosses appearing with Sam (control of the supernatural as well as resurrection? Is it foreshadowing something else like redemption, sacrifice, death?) are scaring me a bit.
ETA: How could I forget Houses of the Holy? lol! I may be back at some point later to do a fuller cross use rundown when I've had a chance to check through more screencaps.
ETA2: Okay I really am going to try and do a meta on the appearances of crosses in S1-S3 (if anyone wants to do it be my guest, it's going to me a week or two to acquire all the caps and check through them) because it ate my brain, not just my morning.
October 31 2008, 22:27:45 UTC 3 years ago
Re: The past use of crosses in Supernatural pt 2
Oh, thank you for pulling this together! You're going to free up my hiatus after all. ;)One of my all time favorite shots is at the end of 3x07 Fresh Blood. It pulls back from the boys to include all of the Impala. But now I can't look at it without seeing the perfect cross in the pole (to the right of the railroad crossing!).
I think it would be useful to catalog whether a scene includes an actual cross or whether one is being suggested. I wasn't even considering all the practical crosses we've seen in the series. :doh:
October 31 2008, 22:58:31 UTC 3 years ago
Re: The past use of crosses in Supernatural pt 2
:) My pleasure! Don't count on it though ;) I have a degree course to finish unfortunately that I will, apparently, finish by December *eyes calendar suspiciously*.Oh wow! That is a strong image!
Yeah! (Oh man, this could be a project to end all projects!) As
October 31 2008, 18:01:06 UTC 3 years ago
Those BTS photos are for 4x06, so if you've seen "Yellow Fever" you won't be spoiled by any of those pictures. :)
Is it new or are we just noticing now due to a shift in visual emphasis?
I don't think the cross motif is new, but perhaps with Dean's resurrection we're just noticing it more. Crosses were featured prominently in "Hookman", "Salvation", "Faith", "HotH", "Sin City" and "Fresh Blood". They also pop up here and there in other episodes; for example whenever the blessing of holy water is done with a rosary, or S1 shots of Truckzilla's weapons cache, or the trunk of not!Sam's Impala in "MS. I think there's an upside down cross in "Something Wicked".
- Which cross associations (sacrifice, death, resurrection, redemption, salvation, faith, etc.) are intended?
It would be interesting to try to break out the symbolic/thematic uses of crosses that may pertain to the mytharc from the use of crosses as simple plot devices (i.e. them being only necessary to further the story). I don't know if this is possible, though as the Show seems to really glom onto religious iconography in it's theme-heavy episodes like "Faith" and "HotH".
- Is it alluding to something that's already happened or foreshadowing something yet to come?
Or maybe it's there to reinforce the underlying themes in that episode? Sacrifice seems to be an especially big anvil.
October 31 2008, 21:53:00 UTC 3 years ago
The Impala was parked in front of Lucky Chin's restaurant in 4x06? I saw that in the photo group but didn't recognize it so moved along quickly. Forget the behind the scenes of that -- they need to set a story there! Dragons? and red and gold emblems? C'mon!! :)
Or maybe it's there to reinforce the underlying themes in that episode? Sacrifice seems to be an especially big anvil.
Of course! I like this best as an explanation for when the crosses are showing up in an almost subliminal way as part of the environment and aren't true, practical crosses as such.
November 9 2008, 23:49:54 UTC 3 years ago
November 19 2008, 00:39:10 UTC 3 years ago
October 31 2008, 11:10:59 UTC 3 years ago
October 31 2008, 22:11:37 UTC 3 years ago
Maybe I (or a mod?) could edit the thread title to be more inclusive? Or, would it be easier to just create separate new posts here or your own journals that can link to and from this thread? I honestly don't know and don't have a preference other than not losing track of the conversation if it continues to grow.
November 2 2008, 05:47:22 UTC 3 years ago
*looks around* I think I'm a mod. ;)
Spoilers are only spoilers if the episode has not yet aired in the US, so you're fine if you want to discuss 4x07 in this thread without having to specifically rubber stamp this as a 4x07 post (after all, discussions have a wonderful tendency take off on tangents). However, if you want to specifically draw attention to this discussion and include more people who are more likely to read a new post, feel free to post a new discussion post for 4x07 or else patch together a meta. Happy discussing!
November 19 2008, 00:56:13 UTC 3 years ago
Crosses in 4x09
Just dropping off a link to my entry for crosses that show up in 4x09 I Know What You Did Last Summer.http://icine.org/blogs/supernatural/200